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 The Dark Knight Rises

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Cghost21



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PostSubject: The Dark Knight Rises   Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:50 am

I'm posting spoilers in here so anyone that doesn't want the movie ruined, don't read past this sentence





Just got back from The Dark Knight Rises and I wanted to post my thoughts. The movie on the whole I thought was pretty stellar and likely the best possible way the trilogy could have ended, but it wasn't as good as The Dark Knight. I went in expecting something completely contrived, and it kind of was (Catwoman winding up actually being a good person and coming to help save Gotham, Batman being able to seemingly effortlessly beat Bane at the end despite just having his back broken by him, the whole self sacrifice thing etc.), but not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be, nor was it done in the manner I thought it would be, which is pretty impressive for a third movie I think. I did think the movie was kind of lulling a bit towards the middle but it never really lost me a whole lot. The movie really keeps with the whole apocalypse concept that they've been dealing with throughout the trilogy, and as the Joker in The Dark Knight ramped up his version of anarchy from the league of Shadows, so does Bane in this movie creating havoc on a scale ten times that of the Joker's capabilities. The characters were well done (Catwoman was a bit hit or miss at times, but nothing major) , the music was fantastic, the fight scenes were great (lots more hand to hand combat in this one), and this movie has probably one of the best endings I've ever seen which ties everything up so well that it's actually quite uncanny. There were times during the movie when Bane would be talking and I was sitting thinking to myself going 'you know, for a guy that masterminded this whole elaborate plan and found out about Batman's secret identity, he really does sound like George Bush when giving a speech' so it was awesome when Tahlia Al-Ghul wound up being the true mastermind behind everything, showing Bane to be nothing more than muscle for hire. The whole atmosphere of the movie is incredible too; I think for the last hour I was constantly on the edge of my seat. I really dug the influence The Dark Knight Returns had on the movie as well.

So with all this praise I've heaped on the thing, why am I so confident that The Dark Knight is hands down the superior film? Well let's not kid ourselves here, the Dark Knight was such a good movie because of Heath Ledger's Joker. The performance he put in for the movie is still easily one of the best I've ever seen and was the reason people were so drawn to the film. The Dark Knight Rises doesn't have this. Sure, Tom Hardy did a good job as Bane, but it just didn't have that magic that Ledger's Joker had. Is it unfair to expect this? Absolutely, which is why I was pretty sure this movie wasn't going to be as good as The Dark Knight regardless. However, I'm not sure they gave Hardy a lot to work with. It was all going pretty well up until Bane started to talk too much. It's really hard for a guy to be menacing when he sounds like 2X-L hopped up on helium. The whole mask/voice thing I think limited Hardy's ability to really run with the role as well and turn Bane into an iconic figure like Ledger did with the Joker. The way they kind of belittled his character at the end where Batman whoops his ass with little to no difficulty at all was kind of disappointing too, but the ending again made up for that by revealing he wasn't really the true villain of the movie.

There was only one other real gripe I had with the movie, albeit it's incredibly minor, and that was the lack of realism. Now I know this is a superhero flick and none of it is real, but throughout the trilogy Nolan's been trying to at least maintain some semblance of reality, which is one of the reasons I've liked each film so much. However, in this film, they really really push it in a couple areas. The big one is after Bane breaks Batman's back and he's back up and fighting in like 100 days or something. It takes a lot longer than 4 months for a broken back to heal. This one really bugged me too because I think they could have had Bane running Gotham for a year or something, at least then it would have been a little bit more believable. Another one, as I've said a couple times, is the ease with which Batman handles Bane at the end. Once it's revealed his mask thing is some morphine injector or something that makes him unable to feel pain, that's fine when Batman targets it and fucks it up. However, in the first fight scene, Bane takes like 20 shots to the face and nothing is ever broken, yet in the last fight scene Batman fucks it up with like 2 shots. Not to mention, in the last fight scene, Bane doesn't nearly display the power and aggression he displayed in the first fight. Like I say, really minor gripes, but just things that kind of irked me.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. If I had to rate the movie, I'd rate it somewhere between 9 and 9.5. I was considering giving it a 10 at first, but it just didn't have enough to get it there. That said, I think it's better than Batman Begins, which I'd give a 9, so I guess a 9.5 for The Dark Knight Rises isn't out of the question. Either way, fantastic ending to a film trilogy I'd go so far to say is one of the best ever.
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roughdraft_zero



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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:55 am

will likely watch this or next weekend. Will probably never read that first post, though.
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Cghost21



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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:59 am

Don't worry, I never read your massive diatribes either.
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tuggernuts



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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:29 am

I agree with most of your points, except a bit about Batman's 2nd fight with Bane. I thought they made it fairly clear that he actually targeted his mask to break it. Sure in the first fight he hit Bane in the face a lot, but didn't actively try to break the mask.

The part where Batman just over powers Bane and pretty much bends him over was awesome as fuck.

I'm interested to see what happens with the series now. This "trilogy" is finished, but obviously there's going to be another set of movies. Christian Bale had originally told Christopher Nolan that he would not be in the movies if Robin were in them... Maybe the quality of Nolan's film making over these 3 movies made him change his mind on that.

I'm not sure how I didn't see Tahlia coming. When I think back on the movie it should have been obvious but I didn't even think about her during the film.

Overall I don't think I'd rate is as high as you. It definitely was not as good as The Dark Knight, and it did drag in the beginning/middle. A second viewing is definitely necessary for me to form a solid opinion, which will be happening this Sunday.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:56 pm

I think it was better than Dark Knight. Yes, it didn't have The Joker, but this movie was structured much better and didn't feel so segmented and overlong. For example, in TDR, everything seems like it's climaxed and things are settling down, and then...the ferry scene? And there's like another hour left? It was all cool, but everything felt like a bunch of pieces strung together, not a complete, concise story.

Even though TDKR was a longer movie, it just felt more cohesive to me. I also love that it didn't have a bunch of random shots of people doing one liners reacting to things. The thing that infuriated me about Batman Begins and TDR were all the pointless little cut aways so people could say things like, "I GOTTA GET ME ONE OF THOSE" or "I DIDN'T SIGN UP FOR THIS". It's so cheesy and out of place. I'm so glad TDKR didn't have that.
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Cghost21



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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:03 pm

tuggernuts wrote:
I agree with most of your points, except a bit about Batman's 2nd fight with Bane. I thought they made it fairly clear that he actually targeted his mask to break it. Sure in the first fight he hit Bane in the face a lot, but didn't actively try to break the mask.

The part where Batman just over powers Bane and pretty much bends him over was awesome as fuck.

It's a good scene, don't get me wrong, I just thought that after Bane went through Batman like absolutely nothing, the way Batman so easily handled him was a bit off. I guess there probably weren't many other ways to handle the last fight though. Either way, it was a minor gripe.

Electroretard wrote:
I think it was better than Dark Knight. Yes, it didn't have The Joker, but this movie was structured much better and didn't feel so segmented and overlong. For example, in TDR, everything seems like it's climaxed and things are settling down, and then...the ferry scene? And there's like another hour left? It was all cool, but everything felt like a bunch of pieces strung together, not a complete, concise story.

I don't know if I agree with you about things feeling like they were settling down when the ferry scene happened because at that time the Joker was still running amok with no clear end to the madness in sight. I will agree that it felt a bit strung together, but that might actually have contributed to why I liked the story more. Almost everything in TDK I didn't see coming. Yeah, the structure was more loose than TDKR (maybe intentionally by Nolan to accentuate the Joker's insanity?) but the plot always moved along; the kind of randomness of the movie never caused it to stagnate. It wasn't like this movie where I had a pretty good idea of about 3/4 of the storyline before I even saw it.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:46 pm

Another thing I really don't think gets enough credit in this series is the music. Hans Zimmer has done such a good job with all three movies that really has lead to them being as good as they are. This movie wouldn't have been anywhere near as tense if the rhythm to that 'rise' chant hadn't been being played anytime Bane was around.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:17 pm

Definitely. The main theme is great.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:18 am

That really was a fantastic way to end the trilogy. I remember thinking I would be disappointed if Bane didn't end up killing Batman, but I think the way they did it worked a lot better than if he had. And I actually think I like this more than The Dark Knight. I agree with you that the reason that movie was so good was because of Joker and I think that's why I like this better. It doesn't have a character as amazing as Joker, but it's a better story imo. I would also say that this is one of the best trilogies I've ever seen, but I'd go further and say this is the best to me. Anyways, on to some points and thoughts.

You said it was a bit contrived that Catwoman would turn hero by the end and help save Gotham. I don't know about that, we already know that's what will happen because we know that while she is a villain, she does have morals and in the end will help Batman do the right thing. That's just her character. Also, I told you that I thought casting Anne Hathaway was questionable. After seeing the movie I found she actually did a competent job as Catwoman... not nearly as good as Ledger as Joker, but I didn't hate her and thought she did the role well enough.

You mentioned how Bane ramped up the chaos that Joker committed, and I even found myself thinking that Joker would have loved Bane on some level. Their plot was way too meticulous for him, but you know he had to be jumping for joy in his cell as everything went down. Even to the point where I wondered that if Ledger were still alive, would Bane have freed Arkham inmates and we would have gotten a Joker cameo as well?

The whole Tahlia thing fucking really caught me off guard. When Batman came into that room beating the shit out of Bane, for some reason I had a feeling that she was about to betray him. I just didn't know how big that reveal would be. I think they hid it well, but maybe if you sat and watched each movie you might be able to tell it was coming. If it had happened earlier in the movie with more with that going on, it could have been a plot twist up there with the whole 'I am your father' from Empire Strikes Back. I did kind of think it was cheap how they gave Bane's back story to her, though. We knew Bane was born in a prison, fought the inmates and became a legend, and eventually escaped. They knew we would completely buy that they were talking about Bane even though they gave hints that it wasn't (the fact that the guys stop telling the story right before they mention who Bane really was because 'Bane wouldn't want that story told' and that when Bruce says 'so that was Bane?' the other replies that that is just a legend)

And Bane. I told you I thought Tom Hardy was also questionable due to stature... and you were right. They filmed it so that Bane did seem taller and bigger than everyone else to make him more imposing. At times you could tell that he wasn't as huge as they made him out to be, but when it counted he was huge and monstrous. And his voice... when he first started talking I turned to Leslie and said his voice sounded really stupid. They did dub over the take that we saw in the preview... and I don't really like what they did with it. As the movie progresses it got better to me, but in the beginning... ugh, I hated it. But in that scene where Batman and Bane fought for the first time... holy shit was he a bad ass. I couldn't believe it when they did the iconic shot of Bane holding him up and giving him a back breaker (I guess I could... but I was just thinking OH MY GOD). And when he was punching Batman in the face and broke the mask. I honestly thought Bane was about to just cave his fucking skull in and he was going to die right there. The worst thing about Bane is his departure from the movie. What the fuck? A cheap shot from Catwoman? That's the resolution to this big monster we've seen? I thought that was a terrible way to take him out.

Did Bane actually break his back? In the prison the guy says he needs to pop the vertebrae back in before he could walk. Doesn't that just mean it was a herniated disk or something similar and not a broken back? Also, they have tried to build Batman up as this monster that is stronger than the average person and can bounce back from anything, so I really didn't have a problem with his quick recovery. It seemed on par with the man they'd given us so far.

Now on to my minor gripes and complaints... did Catwoman know that Batman was Bruce Wayne before Bane said his name? I just felt that she had to know who he was. Bruce basically reveals it to her in that scene where they are dancing. That's how I felt anyway... not a real complaint, but something I am curious about. And for Robin... oh how disappointed I was at the end when they said his name was Robin. I thought he was an amazing character and I'd like to see him return to the role again in another trilogy. BUT, this is what I thought was going to go down... when he was asking the woman about picking up the bag she said his name wasn't in the system, so what I was thinking was that Batman or Catwoman had erased his identity (with that clean slate program). He had already quit the police force and I was thinking they were going to erase every trace of him so he could pick up the mantle as Batman. The thing they've said throughout the series is that Batman is an idea, not a person... so if Batman showed up again after the explosion it would appear as if he was this mythical being that could not be killed... instead... we got Robin. Blah. Also, how does he know that Bruce is Batman? Because he saw a look on his face that was familiar to his own? Bruce hears that and may as well have broken into a grin and said 'Ya got me!' He doesn't really deny it at all when this guy says it. The guy says he knows I'm really Batman? Fuck it, good enough for me. I thought that was a bit unbelievable that he would give away his identity so easily. Hhmmm, for now I think that's all I have to complain about. I plan on seeing it again so I'll probably remember other things later.

But yes, THAT ENDING. Holy fuck. That was just really amazing. That has got to be one of the best endings I've ever seen. We don't really expect a happy ending in a Batman movie (not this series anyway) but they did it. And they did it in such a way that we don't feel that we've been cheated. It made sense and it just works. I thought this series was over, but god damn do I hope they come back to it for another trilogy with Blake as either Batman or Robin. You mentioned Bale not doing the movies if Robin were in them, but I say it doesn't matter. They made it clear that Bruce Wayne had finally given the people everything and was finally released of the shackles that were being Batman. At least, that's what I got from it.

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Cghost21



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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:33 am

A herniated disc isn't when a vertebrae sticks out of your neck, no. It has to do when the cartlidge or something in between discs starts to bulge out and you wind up with two discs rubbing against each other. Trust me, if someone has a vertebrae actually sticking out of their neck tot he point where you can see it and whack it back in with your fist, then you're not walking again in a few months lol. Like I said, that wasn't a huge deal, but I just felt they could have done it a bit better and had Bane run the city longer or something.

I don't think Catwoman knew that Bruce Wayne was Batman because when she betrays him and Bane calls him 'Mr. Wayne', the camera cut back to her with a look of shock on her face.

The way Bane died was kind of cheap, but I think it was necessary because it showed that he really wasn't the big hulking menace to humanity that he was made out to be the whole movie until it was taken away by Talia Al-Ghul. After that revelation, Bane becomes nothing but muscle for hire and loses some of his intimidation. I think that's why Nolan decided to end him quickly and almost too easily.

I'm going to see this again on Sunday, or maybe early next week. I've been thinking about it and I think I'll enjoy the movie even more on the second go 'round.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:47 am

Well I don't really know anything about back injuries, to me it just sounded like it was broken but something bad... I don't really know what the recovery time for any back related injuries is.

I don't think it was necessary to kill him that way, though. It almost seemed like they wanted his death to be a punchline (which it was with the 'I don't agree with your standpoints on guns') but that just feels wrong after so much emphasis has been placed on him. Yeah, he wasn't the mastermind, but I feel cheated. Everything was built around Bane and then he goes out like a wimp. Even if he did just turn out to be muscle for hire, I think he deserved a better ending. Maybe I'd feel better about the way he died if they actually revealed Tahlia to be the one earlier in the movie. That's a reveal that's only about 15 minutes away from the end... I didn't have enough time to think of her as the real big guy the whole time. So yeah, if they had revealed who she was earlier and really shown her calling the shots for a while, even 30 or 45 minutes, Bane's death wouldn't have been as big of a deal to me.

Oh yeah, you were right on there being no steroids, too.

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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:51 am

Another thought, what was Bane getting pumped into him? Painkillers? Or just something to numb his body? If it's just something that makes him numb, maybe that's why he's super strong. He doesn't feel a god damn thing so he just goes for it. If it's some type of painkiller, how is he not insanely high all the time?

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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:54 am

I dunno, maybe I didn't mind so much about Bane's death because I'd had enough of hearing his stupid voice lol

All wiki says is that it feeds him a steady flow of gas that relieves his constant pain. Probably a numbing agent because if it was morphine or something, yeah, he'd be constantly messed up lol
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:23 am

Just watched Brad Jones' (The Cinema Snob) thoughts on the movie. He had roughly the same nitpicks as we did but absolutely hated Catwoman. Also said he was disappointed and that this is the worst of the series. He really seemed like he hated the movie.

I was surprised. I thought people would love this. I sure as hell did. Oh well.

Oh hell, I remember what Bane's voice reminded me of. Did anyone else get a Deckard Cain vibe from him?

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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:41 am

Never made the Cain connection but I see it now lol.

I don't understand how people could love the first two and then absolutely hate this one. I read a couple reviews that were trashing the movie and all their completes seemed incredibly petty (oh it was too depressing wah wah, shut the hell up, they all have been).

I could maybe see not liking Catwoman, I didn't really at first, but I don't see what causes such intense fury over her character. Then again you did say he was a cinema snob, and not only do I typically not agree with those peoples' opinions, I usually think they're complete douchebags. Except for Bryan, I like him even though he is a complete douchebag.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:59 pm

first

tl;dr

Also I just saw it and don't have a wall of text to write about it.

I just really enjoyed it. Pretty epic.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:24 pm

Pretty much all of the posts were tl;dr for me... i was invited to go see it yesterday, and I passed. Yes, I am a terrible person.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:44 am

IAmHeavenSent wrote:
i was invited to go see it yesterday, and I passed. Yes, I am a terrible person.

I am lame times 213587235723 (number subject to change)


+1
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:46 am

Tom Hardy was freaking huge. That scene in the sewers was epic.

It'll be interesting to see where they go from here. Nolan doesn't seem to interested in doing any more Batman movies at this point in time. DC has been talking of rebooting Batman in several years time to coincide with their rumoured Justice League movie. At least with Nolan's ending they have a decent way of rebooting the series by just placing a new Batman in the series instead of starting from scratch. As much as I love Joseph Gordon Levitt I don't know how he would go as a Batman.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:04 am

He would be awesome. He played it pretty bad ass in Dark Knight Rises.

But Tom Hardy is a fairly small guy. It's impressive how big they made him seem.

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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:33 am

I guess you have never seen Warrior or Bronson. Tongue
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:10 am

I have seen Bronson. He may be muscular, but he's not a really big guy. Certainly nowhere near Bane big. Which is why I say it's impressive that they make him seem so huge.

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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:11 pm

Hated it. What a terrible, convoluted, sweeping pile of crap. I don't feel like posting a wall of text, but that was a really good example of how NOT to do storytelling.

And cat woman. How can anyone say she was a good character?
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:35 pm

I'll agree with you on Catwoman. I can't believe the people on IGN saying she was the best acted character and stole the show. Personally, I thought she was okay at best.

I just enjoyed it. I didn't go into it looking for the greatest story ever told or anything. I went to see Batman get the shit beaten out of him by Bane... and that's essentially what I got. It entertained me.

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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises   Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:11 pm

My mom and brother woke me up and dragged me into seeing this movie this morning. I wish I had slept in instead.
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